Forum posts to 'The NZ Client Driven Practice Forum'

Re: Database

Robyn Pope — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:05:28 -0500

Hi John and welcome to the Forum!
We at Wesley use ASIST- with limiting degrees of use to be honest but I think thats more our issue than the database! The joy of this is you cover the licencing and the cost is one off rather than My Outcomes- who I think still charge a monthly fee per user which would be huge.

I know Excess Connectivity- the company who have developed the client software programme in NZ that a number of community organisations are using- have worked with Barry to design a clip on module for CDOI. I also know that Relationship Services were also looking at designing their own software but I don't know where they are up to.

If you want contacts for either of these give me a ring - 04 805 0874 and I can give you them.
Regards
Robyn

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Database

Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:30:17 -0500

Hi, we are planning to set up our own database for gathering info on ORS and SRS. Be grateful to hear about other experiences of this. I was keen to use MyOutcomes or Assist but finances are scarce at this time. We are talking about 60 to 70 workers using the system eventually.
Thanks John (at Family Works)

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Re: Objectification of people

24-7 Ltd — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:52:06 -0500

Hi Robyn,

I guess the Psychologists also need to read this:

http://www.investigatemagazine.co.nz/Investigate/?p=1625

More of the "we are the expert, you are the dumbass client" fallacy that has come to dominate the discourse.

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Re: Objectification of people

Robyn Pope — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:38:01 -0500

HI Nick and Steve
I couldn't agree more with your views. Just recently we had a young person undergo a court ordered psych assessment. After the psychologist had seen her for a couple of hours she wrote her report- which the young girl was not allowed to see, we were not either (as her carers as she lives in one of our homes). The psychologist told us as the court had ordered the report she would only give it to the judge.
Where is the engagement, respect and value for this young girl? (Who is 16 years old so not exactly a baby!). She had asked to see the report and was told no. We had limited engagement with the psychologist- despite the fact that the young girl has lived with us for months ...possibly because we said very clearly that any engagement we have will be at the request of the young person and very transparent....which results in people not engaging with us!

We have also had young people come to our services on a number of medications - and have left them on no medication - quality care, good relationships and consistency seems to beat medication hands down.
Robyn (who is really Robyn and not Nick posing as Robyn)

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Re: Family Court Review 2011 -2012

24-7 Ltd — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:41:13 -0500

Greetings,

Would I be able to get a copy of the 2008 evaulation, especially as it relates to client outcomes, and how these were measured?

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Re: Family Court Review 2011 -2012

Admin — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:34:10 -0500

While not strictly related to the use of ORS or SRS in Family Courts; Wesley Community Action (WCA) uses such tools in our WATCH Court based initiative.

Here’s what a Min of Health report noted about WCA’s work ( You will note their report emphasises ‘link workers’ rather than counsellors or mediators, and a suggestion is that you consider use of peers, advocates or link workers as appropriate.)

1. The sector visits also provided an opportunity to discuss the Whanganui-a-Tara Courts and Health (WATCH) service, which is provided by an NGO (Wesley Community Trust) and funded by the Capital & Coast DHB. The WATCH service provides intensive community-based support to recidivist offenders with moderate to severe AOD issues and other complex needs who appear in the Wellington and Porirua district courts and are willing to participate in the programme. The programme provides practical support to offenders and assists them in accessing a wide range of health and social services, such as AOD treatment, mental health services, income assistance, housing and accommodation, parenting services, and training and employment services. The WATCH community workers also work closely with family and whānau.

2. The WATCH service was evaluated in 2008 with positive results. The evaluation concludes that the WATCH service “is succeeding in providing real assistance and is supporting a group of young adult offenders, typically regarded as ‘hard to treat’, to make tangible gains in their lives. . . .Critically, these changes have included positive shifts with respect to AOD use and offending behaviour”.

3. All stakeholders expressed support for the provision of an intensive community-based support service, similar to the one provided by WATCH.

4. The provision of more ‘linkage’ workers could also help to improve the reintegration of offenders into the community following release from prison.

5. A few stakeholders suggested that linkage workers could be based within the AOD treatment service itself rather than operating at the court.

6. The Ministry of Health nationwide service specification, Peer Support Service for Adults, could provide a suitable link role.

Hope this is helpful. WCA Admin.

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Family Court Review 2011 -2012

24-7 Ltd — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:46:57 -0500

I am currently writing up a Masters paper on service outcomes of the Family Court, in preparation for making a formal submission to the Ministry of Justice Family Court Review. Part of my presentation is going to be a proposal on applying CDOI principals and practice within the Family Court setting, particularly with Counsellors and Mediators. The Ministry of Justice has recently confirmed to me in writing that , in the 31 years of the Family Courts existence, client service outcomes have NEVER been measured or collected.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone in the forum who may have had some experience working in the Family Court system, and whether they would see a place for say the ORS and SRS being used with court-appointed Counsellors and Mediators?

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Family Court Review 2011 -2012

24-7 Ltd — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:46:57 -0500

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Re: Objectification of people

24-7 Ltd — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:39:52 -0500

Hi Nick,

I am reminded of a client of mine who spent two years having weekly sessions with a Psychotherapist, and presented with a diagnosis of depression. In the clients third session with me, I raised the possibility that the client may simply be experiencing sadness, as opposed to "being depressed". This possibility had never been raised with the client before. One week later, the client's relief was palatable, and mood remarkably lifted - the "depression" hasn't featured since. I was able to raise this possibility on the back of developing a strong therapeutic alliance, and on not being "sold" on the "diagnosis". A mental health diagnosis is a snapshot in time, but not neccessarily a life prescription. (pun intended).

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Re: CDOI NZ

24-7 Ltd — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:48:23 -0500

Hi Nick,

Greetings to you too.

I enjoyed reading about the Kaupapa Rating Scale as part of my Outcome Research? Have passed it on to a couple of people who attended Barry's recent training in Auckland, which I attended.

Posted to: CDOI NZ Show Thread | Post Reply

Re: The implementation phase

Nick Drury — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:28:30 -0500

Once I registered I was fine. I was just getting to enjoy being Robyn Pope (talk about make yourself available for the Other), but I can now go back to being Nick Drury.

Look forward to our discussions.

Thanks to Wesley for creating this forum

kind regards

Nick Drury

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Objectification of people

Nick Drury — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:26:18 -0500

I thought I might endeavor to provoke a discussion on this topic.

Barry recently shared a paper he had written with David Antonuccio called 'A patient bill of rights for psychotropic prescription.." and published in the Internation J of Clinical Medicine, (2011, 2: 353-359) on the heroicagencies bulletin board. It is a nice paper and aimed at our medical colleagues. However there is an element in the paper that raised concerns for me and I would be interested in hearing the views of other CDOI/FIT folk on this. The first 'right' that they identify is: "Patients have a right to a thorough diagnostic and functional assessment by a behavioral (American spelling!!) health care specialist". They are wanting to make the point that a thorough assessment will include more emphasis on the psycho-social factors and not just a narrow DSM diagnosis that generates or supports the "a pill for every ill" viewpoint that is so dominant. This is a worthy goal. However I worry that a more important right is being overlooked - and that is the right to have empathic engagement with a "behavioral health care specialist" (to use their term). Part of the problem, as I see it, is that the 'medical model' folk place primary emphasis upon an objective assessment, and not upon engagement. When the primary focus is upon 'objective assessment' the client is at risk of being "objectivized" - turned into an "object" that needs manipulating with some drug or some therapeutic technique. I think that works well with the various organs of the body; and indeed I want to see a heart specialist who functions in that way. But the "mind" is not an organ. We know that the therapeutic alliance is a major key to successful outcomes. There is even that research by Wampold (?) showing that doctors with better bedside manners got better results with placebos that doctors using 'the real thing' (not coke) but poorer bedside manners.

You get the drift of where I am going with this - would be interested in hearing how others think of this.

Kind regards

Nick

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Re: CDOI NZ

Nick Drury — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:57:25 -0500

Nice to see you here Steve. I am posting this to make sure I am me today and not Robyn

Kind regards

Nick

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Re: The implementation phase

Admin — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:12:36 -0500

Sorry to hear you have been having hassles 'registering' on the Forum. I suspect the problem is that you need to first set up your profile once you have logged in.

Click on the 'Profile' tab located on the RH top.... just above the; '9posts in 5 topics by 5 members'.... Where it says "you are logged in as.../Log out / Profile. Click on the profile button.

It is important that you give yourself a 'nickname' (or your name) at the top of the profile (this stops us all being recognised as 'anonymous user' etc ).... you can also add a picture etc. You then need to confirm these changes by restating your password and saving the changes at the bottom of the Profile form.

I hope this helps and apologies for any inconvenience!

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CDOI NZ

24-7 Ltd — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:49:56 -0500

Greetings,

Here is a link to an online SRS I use in my Practice: http://www.24-7.org.nz/FeedbackForm.php

Kind Regards,

Steve Taylor,
Director,
24-7 Ltd
www.24-7.org.nz

Posted to: CDOI NZ Show Thread | Post Reply

Re: The implementation phase

Robyn Pope — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 16:24:33 -0500

Following instructions, I too have logged in as Robyn Pope as logging in under my own name did not work.
Am keen to hear how others are utilising the tools, following the training days.
Robyn Corrigan (about to go off and find out how to log in under my own name........................)

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Re: The implementation phase

Robyn Pope — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 16:03:06 -0500

I have logged on as Robyn Pope. It is a great privilege to be Robyn Pope, but I would prefer to be Nick Drury, as I am more used to being Nick Drury. However I seem to not get recognized as Nick Drury, so here I am passing myself off as Robyn Pope.

I would love to hear stories of peoples experiences implementing the CDOI. I must admit that although I was using the forms for a decade, it was when I started using the ASIST programme that I noticed a large leap forward in my performance. I could see at a glance how my overall performance was panning out as a therapist. I set my goals on that 80% mark and looked at what I was doing to get closer or stay above that mark, etc.

kind regards

Nick (alias Robyn Pope - or should that be around the other way - Chuang-tsu' "I was dreaming I was a butterfly, and then I awoke, but then wondered if I am a butterfly dreaming I am Chuang-tsu")

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The implementation phase

Robyn Pope — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 15:34:11 -0500

Once we return back to our busy work lives the next challenge is "What do we do with the energy and excitment from the training?". It can be very easy to go back to doing what we did - our challenge is to begin using the measures (ORS and SRS) in a way that is meaningful to those we work alongside, us as professionals and our agencies.

It would be great to hear how people are going with this next step - my experience is that without a champion(someone holding that CDOI flag, supporting individuals within agencies, sharing their stories of sucess and not so sucessful times) the implementation can slow down- or worse- get lost in the day to day events.

This forum can be that champion for you until you are ready to take that role on. Last count saw a number of agencies from Kaikohe to Dunedin who have committed to priviledging the clients voice throuoghout all interactions, and give true meaning to consumer driven outcome management.

Happy to help out in any way with this movement - if it has been tried and failed I am pretty sure we can top that! Wesley has really committed to this and are 3 years on this journey so can hopefully provide some support to those earlier on in this process.

Let the hairy questions begin!

Robyn Pope

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Re: Making the best use of Barry's Visit

David Hanna — Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:05:12 -0500

Yes - I suggest you try and arrange a meeting with the PM's scientific advisor. The robust evidence of CDOI is something we need to bring to this Govt's attention

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Making the best use of Barry's Visit

Admin — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:15:08 -0500

While Barry is in NZ we have one spare day, when we are keen to get him to meet as many 'influential' people as possible, to this end we are planning a 4 hour workshop, on 17 Aug from 9am to 1pm.

Most of you will have had conversations with people about CDOI, so it would be great to include them on the invite list. Can you either email Robyn Pope or post your suggestions here. These needed by Fri 15 July, so we can get the invites out.

Thanks

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Barry Duncan in NZ August 2011

Admin — Sun, 03 Jul 2011 20:10:43 -0500

Barry Duncan is coming to NZ in August 2011 and will be holding two workshops;

"Advanced Partners for Change' offers a two day interactive workshop "for practitioners and supervisors currently incorporating outcome measures into their work and will be held on 15 & 16 August 2011, at the Womens refuge centre, level 2, 57 Courtenay Place. For further details and a registration form, see the news section of this web site

A 'Partners for change' two day interactive workshop will also be held in Auckland on the 22 and 23 August 2011, at Parnells, On the Rose Gardens,' 85 Gladstone Rd., Parnell. Auckland. This introductory workshop is designed to highlight reasons for and ways to "partner with clients to make services effective, accountable and just." For further details and a registration form, see the news section of this web site

Forum posts to 'The NZ Client Driven Practice Forum'

Re: Database

Database

Re: Objectification of people

Re: Objectification of people

Re: Family Court Review 2011 -2012

Re: Family Court Review 2011 -2012

Family Court Review 2011 -2012

Family Court Review 2011 -2012

Re: Objectification of people

Re: CDOI NZ

Re: The implementation phase

Objectification of people

Re: CDOI NZ

Re: The implementation phase

CDOI NZ

Re: The implementation phase

Re: The implementation phase

The implementation phase

Re: Making the best use of Barry's Visit

Making the best use of Barry's Visit

Barry Duncan in NZ August 2011

Re: test topic

test topic